Please disable moral loss in crusader mode after all armies are defeated

Hi.
I would like to suggest a small change in the moral system in the crusader mode. After all armies are defeated/ all settlements are taken, it would be good if the banners wouldn’t turn red. I mean there is no possibility to keep them green. It also makes little sense that the moral should drop after almost complete victory.
The moral drop can be annoying if you still have some events you want to finish ( like the 30 days long event for Logistic to reach rank 8 ) and you have to fight the spawned demon armies with a -100 moral.
Thank you

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Maybe there could even be a counter like “that many demon armies are still active” that affect the moral loss.
Hence: If there are no baddies, your moral will drop very slowly/won’t drop.
If there are many armies at large endangering your settlements moral could drop faster.

Greetz
MagicChris

2 Likes

I agree … once you have cleared out all of the demon armies and fortresses on the map area, it would make sense for the banners to stay green … your army has been victorious, after all!!

It is seriously demoralising when you clear the map quickly only to be punished by having your army morale plummet! :sob:

Although I see nothing wrong with the suggestion, I’ll state a case for the opposite view. As far as I can tell, the number of days each banner stays green is cumulative (I’ll add to the suggestion - make an easily accessible counter noting how many days you have left on green), so it doesn’t really matter how quickly you clear the map.

However, it does affect how quickly you need to proceed through the game. To me, this makes a bit of sense. How would morale be affected if there’s no progress for months at a time? Even though the crusaders have the upper hand for the first time, is it still an unwinnable situation? The longer it persists, I think morale would naturally sink.

Maybe make it sink at a lower rate?

Well, you have won the war (or at least the accessible part of the war). Sure the army could be sad because the war is finished and they have no jobs anymore, but…

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+1 It is an outright design flaw (with all due respect) and seems relatively easy to improve. Changing the Morale system would go a long way in making the Crusade system better.

MagicChris idea is interesting : Morale loss relative to enemy armies left.

But it’s not finished. The wound is still open, and they’re still away from whatever family or home they have.

Of course, demon morale should be worse. “Sheesh, we’re being ordered into another run towards Drezen? Just give it up already.”

Mechanically, it puts a soft limit on the time available to complete the game (contrast to Kingmaker which had, essentially, a hard limits due to neverending kingdom management crises).

If all enemy armies were defeated, the moral drop should be slower, and if all armies were defeated and all forts occupied, drop should stop. At this point, you have practically won the war, and the demons no longer pose a serious threat to your men. Sure, the worldwound hasn’t been closed yet, but the soldiers just have to understand that I’m waiting for the right date.

Maybe it would be enough to add a special repeatable event / research to the game (something like “Victory celebration” or “Increase salary and extra rations”), which would increase morale, but it would be accessible only if there are no enemies on the map. I think that adding a single event / research is much easier than changing how the current system works.

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Well. We are working on an experiment with nenio:
Can you get a new demon template through unnatural selection with:
Immune to electricity and poison, resistance 10 fire, cold, acid, SR 11+CR, darkvision 60ft. and minority complex to defenders of drezen.

:wink:

MC

I think thats a reasonable way to implement endgame behaviour. Any modders here to get it done?

MC

I expect the main issue here is if you miss the Gozran 16-21 window and have to wait a near full extra year. To my mind, the worst offender for causing this is how stupidly the research is distributed. Basically, everything is logistics research. This is significantly compounded by Lich specific researches also all being logistics and wasting several months more time.

I understand they wanted something like the overwhelming attacks like at the end of Kingmaker that force your hand, but the crusade system simply isnt comparable. There was nothing like the same time constraint with regard to completing all possible projects, and also no reason to have to hit a very narrow window to start the endgame.

Well yeah - that’s definitely a problem. I guess I should ask Galfrey about Threshold within the next couple of months? :slight_smile:

If the game literally has you waiting with nothing to do except fight spawned mobile demon armies, that’s a problem. I also think knowledge of that deadline shouldn’t be behind a dialogue option - instead, it should be part of her speech after completing Iz. No wonder no one else was willing to take the contrarian side.

edit: just how do you hide spoiler text?

re-edit: maybe that knowledge comes after Ineluctable Prison (have not yet completed it)? [Don’t answer, 'cuz, you know, spoiler :slight_smile: ]

For spoilers:
You can use the details tag for it, you find it here. Note that you cannot use it in the middle of a paragraph, you need to start a new paragraph.Capture+_2022-01-08-07-09-31

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The end of Part 3 waiting for the queen wrecks your morale anyway no matter what you do as I haven’t got past that yet trying to do it all different ways, I can confirm you cannot leave part 3 with good morale, the game just wasn’t thought out well when it comes to crusade morale, it’s kind of like an eight year old in lower grade classes did the design behind it and didn’t play the card games at all.

At what point is your morale wrecked? I’ve had no problem with morale throughout the game (I’m still in Act 5 though). Morale is not involved in Act 4, so here’s a screenshot of morale at the beginning of Act 5 in my game (first opportunity I had to check crusade management):

Its not really a spoiler without explaining the significance of those dates.

(Was trying to make light of it. It’s not practical to put everything behind spoiler markup - otherwise, everything would be, and if everything is, it kind of defeats the purpose of indicating “Beware before looking”.)

While there is a narrative value to “The crusade has stalled and the troops are worried” ingame it doesn’t work because there is no option to keep pushing the attacks. End of act 3, stop you can’t press into the act 5 regions, end of act 5 stop and wait for the stars to align. So your mechanically restricted from doing things and then mechanically punished for it. The 1 research project and so many of them being off the same stat means you can have dozens of projects waiting even if you’ve been researching constantly so you either tank morale or leave them undone.

The issue is further compounded in that morale only seems to get an extension by defeating “armies” as in the stationary enemy forces, at least my morale was still dropping even though I was defeating the mobile ones who spawned. So you can’t even buy time by crushing them to allow you to finish some long 20 days+ research projects.

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I don’t understand anyways why these crusade projects need weeks to finish. When I saw that rank ups are only lasting a symbolic 1 day, I was happy about that time seems to not matter anymore in management. And before the morale system was introduced (ok i was beta player) I was thinking “yess now time doesn’t matter anymore for crusade”. I thought it’s the consequence of that they learned from KM that time limits are well-hated by their players.

There is not even a reason why crusade morale should go down after winning all battles - morale will be reset in cha 5 anyways. Just the players from release days were hit, because to that time the morale didn’t reset, so a lot of them literally started with -100 morale in Cha 5 iirc - they suddenly lost progression of around 2 chapters (or use mods). I still think that banners turning red after full victory is another bug/oversight.

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Could not agree more!