Need help for dual weilding build

looking for a build that uses two weapond (like dual wielding samurai style). I know i want to go mythic trickster (more improve crit and +1 crit mod) and especially for the lvl7 mythic (knowledge 3 - that removes the restrictions of feats for yourself and party) so i can pretty much pick anything without any restrictions ex: can pick greater power attack even if i dont have power attack.

Some questions, whats the best race for this? is trip build worth? What class (i was thinking maybe sword saint for the max dpr), str > dex? weapond to focus? lead blades?

While technically any class can do two weapon fighting (twf) by selecting the feats, common classes to use include:

Slayer/Ranger - can use ranger talents to select twf feats without meeting Dex pre-reqs so typically str based
Rogues - gets weapon finesse to drive everything off of Dex (i.e Dex to attacks and DMG) so typically Dex based. Gets sneak attack (as does slayer) which works well with increased attacks from twf
Fighter - has unique feat, effortless dual wielding, that enables him to dual wield normal sized weapons. I thought this feat was available at level 9 but I was able to take it at 7 in wotr. Typically str based.

You need a light weapon (dagger, kurki, etc) in your off-hand to avoid horrendous penalties. This means most folks end up using two light weapons to maximize feats that are tied to specific weapons. For Crits using kurkis is a common choice because of its excellent Crit range.

For race human provides an extra feat which is nice considering how feat intensive twf is.

I’m current playing a human TWF Mutation Warrior (fighter) using dual Estocs and very satisfied with this build so far.

Oh and just to be clear, sword Saint is not a great class for two weapon fighting as it requires a free hand for spell combat and doesn’t get many feats. You could choose to ignore the spell combat and just use it’s spells for buffs but the lack of feats makes it pretty meh for twf.

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You forgot Rogue (other than Rowdy). They get Weapon Finesse at lvl 1 and Finesse Training in 1 weapon at lvl 3 as part of class.

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I covered Rogues but my formatting is not the best from my phone. The extra details are great, thanks!

There is no greater power attack in the game. There is Mythic Power Attack, but it still requires power Attack to function.

Sorry completel missed it. Same I read it in phone so probably scrolled too fast and did not notice I skipped it

One thing I miss while playing the Pathfinder ruleset is “Oversized TWF” this feat allowed you to dual wield Bastards swords, Dwarven War Axe etc etc. (Oversized TWF is 3.5 D&D).

Fighters get a feat called “Effortless Dual Wielding”, which allows them to dual wield full sized weapons for their Weapon Training groups. So dual wielding 2 Bastard Swords etc. should be possible with 5 lvls of Fighter.

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Any race that either boosts your primary stat (Str or Dex) and doesn’t penalize Con will be good. Angel- or Muse-kin Aasimar, Human, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Sacred Dhampir etc. Humans are especially useful because they get a bonus feat at lvl 1.

Ranger, Slayer, Fighter and Rogue are generally the “best” dual wielders. Fighters get a unique feat for it, but I generally find them to be the least effective of the four.

Rogues get Weapon Finesse for free at lvl 1 and a class ability called Finesse Training at lvl 3, allowing them to use Dex to hit and damage with certain weapons. This makes taking 3 levels of Rogue on a Fighter a good idea, if you want a Dex build. Pure-class Rogues benefit from dual wielding since every attack can get Sneak Attack and will virtually always meet the Dex requirement for the feats. They also get a lot of bonus feats.

Rangers and Slayers get “Combat Style Feats” at class level 2, 6 and 10 (plus some more, but they aren’t as important), that lets them ignore the normal requirements of the feats in each style. This allows Rangers and Slayers to build dedicated Str dual wielders, which typically translate to higher damage and more overall feat flexibility, but a bit lower defense. I recommend picking up Heavy Armor proficiency and using a Full Plate (Mithril seems to be overall best for this) to compensate for the lost AC compared to Dex builds. Str Rangers and Slayers also do well with throwing weapons as their ranged option, which can usually be dual wielded.

Fighters won’t get Dex to damage without multiclassing with Rogue, nor can they ignore the Dex requirement for dual wielding feats. This means they are more dependent on either building both Dex and Str or or on feats like Piranha Strike.

For higher level play, it is also worth considering picking up a few levels in a class that gives access to the spells Shield, Mirror Image and Blur, because these spells go a long way to improve frontline survivability. Taking 1 level in Monk for either Wis or Cha to AC when unarmored and Crane Style for free is also good on Dex characters.

4 levels of Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue will give you Weapon Finesse, Finesse Training and all three of these spells. Scoundrel also goes well with the Eldritch Knight prestige class for a dual wielder, since you’ve already given up much of your Sneak Attack for getting spellcasting, so losing a bit more isn’t a problem.

Some “stock” builds:

Freebooter Ranger 16 / Rogue 3 / Monk 1 - Dex + Wisdom build. Unarmored Defense + Crane Style + Fighting Defensively with Mobility Rank 3 will give 7-11 AC easily, on top of Dex, bracers of armor (counts as unarmored) etc. Damage mostly comes from stacking Freebooter’s Bane & Bond, Piranha Strike, Dex to damage, multiattack, Lead Blades, Sense Vitals and Sneak Attack.

Slayer 16 / Rogue 3 / Monk 1 - Same as the above, except without magic and more Sneak Attack.

Rogue 20 - Just an all out Dex build.

Slayer 20 - Str + heavy armor build. Power Attack → Cornugon Smash + Weapon Focus → Dazzling Display → Shatter Defenses lets you Sneak Attack at almost all times, even when going 1v1.

Eldrtich Scoundrel 10 / Eldritch Knight 10 - Dex and Int build. Dex build with arcane spells.

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You can dual wield any one-handed weapon at any time. But if weapon is not light it gives you with -4 penality.
You need Fighter’s only “Advanced Weapon Training - Effotless Dualwielding” Feat to reduce it to basic -2 penality.

Which feats did you use for your double weapon mutation warrior ?:slight_smile:

Race: Human
Stats: 20/15/14/10/10/7
Background: Acoloyte (Wisdom for Persuasion)
Feats:

  1. Exotic Weapon: Estoc, Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Estoc
  2. Double Slice (MW gets huge strength bonuses making this worth it IMHO)
  3. Dazzling Display (needed for Shatter Defenses)
  4. Weapon Specialization
  5. Outflank, WT: Heavy Blades
  6. Improved TWF
  7. Advanced Training: Effortless Dual Wielding, MD: Feral Mutagen
  8. Improved Critical: Estoc
  9. Critical Focus
  10. Shatter Defenses
  11. Can’t Remember, MD: Feral Wings
  12. Greater Weapon Specialization
  13. Staggering Critical
  14. Critical Mastery
  15. Tiring Critical (to get to Exhausiting), MD: Greater Mutagen

Mythic Abilities: Ever-reay, Leading Strike
Mythic Feats: Mythic TWF, Improved Critical (+1 Multiplier), Flawless Attacks, Wpn Specialization, Wpn Focus

I’m operating off of memory for the above so hopefully I have it down accurately.

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Thank you pal! :slight_smile: <3

I’m hoping EK levels count toward that?

EK levels stack with your spellcasting class from 2 onwards. An ES 10 / EK 10 will count as a lvl 19 ES when it comes to its spells. EK does not have its own spell progression, it just continues where your old class left off.

Edit: Misunderstood. No, EK levels do not count towards the special dual wield feat, because it has the prerequisite of Weapon Training, which is a Fighter class feature.

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And which mythic path do you wanna go with this? And instead of acoloyte i guess smith or even pickpocket (+2 iniatitive is great i guess) would be nice too.

I’m going Trickster because it’s my favorite mythic path, though Azata would work well too. I chose the Acoloyte path becuase I’m leveraging Trickster’s Persuasion tricks so the +2 it gives using wisdom over my dumped charisma stat is useful. It makes sense to re-jig the stats or background depending on what you want to achieve.

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Would ya mind reposting +full+ build with mythic stuff here please?:slight_smile:

It hasn’t changed much from what I posted previously, I’m only up to level 16 (near end of Abyss) so haven’t completed a full build yet.

Race: Human
Stats: 20/15/14/10/10/7
Background: Acoloyte (Wisdom for Persuasion)
Feats:

  1. Exotic Weapon: Estoc, Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Estoc
  2. Double Slice (MW gets huge strength bonuses making this worth it IMHO)
  3. Dazzling Display (needed for Shatter Defenses)
  4. Weapon Specialization
  5. Outflank, WT: Heavy Blades
  6. Improved TWF
  7. Advanced Training: Effortless Dual Wielding, MD: Feral Mutagen
  8. Improved Critical: Estoc
  9. Critical Focus, WT: Armed Bravery, WT: Heavy Blades
  10. Greater Weapon Focus
  11. Shatter Defenses MD: Feral Wings
  12. Greater Weapon Specialization
  13. Staggering Critical
  14. Tiring Critical
  15. Critical Mastery(to get to Exhausiting), MD: Greater Mutagen
  16. Exhausting Critical
    17: Probably Intimidating to add Strength to Trickster Persuasion trick

Skills: Athletics, Mobility, Persuasion

Mythic Path: Trickster
Mythic Abilities: Bit of Fun, Ever-ready, Thundering Blows
Mythic Feats: Mythic TWF, Improved Critical (+1 Multiplier), Flawless Attacks (Planned), Wpn Specialization (Planned), Wpn Focus (Planned)
Trickster Tricks: Arcana 2, Persuasion 1, Knowledge: World 1

I used an Estoc and best available Kurki until level 7, the penatly for two Estocs is two much until you get to Effortless. In another thread @alice_ashpool pointed out that using Scimitars saves you needing to take the exotic weapons feat. There are a lot of good scimitars in the game so that is certainly a good alternative to Estocs. I went Estoc because I did some previous playthoughs as a Sword Saint with Scimitar and wanted a change so sick of it a bit. Also I had a portrait I wanted to use but the dual swords were more estoc like then scimitar.

I took the Acolyte background to remove the -2 penatly for dumping Charisma, but alternate backgrounds are fine.

So far very happy with this build on Daring, hits hard with very good AC thanks to the Mutagen and Feral Wings which stacks with everything.

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