Hellknight Signifier build

I plan on making a Hellknight Signifier for a Devil mythic Path and I am curious as to which class I should start with.
So far I am leaning towards a Magus to get the most from the Mythic Path (start Aeon, end as Devil) but I am curious what the reputation of the Hellknight Signifier prestige class is.

It’s not as popular in WotR because it doesn’t keep Divine Caster’s progression of things like Domains, which makes it undesirable for most Divine caster classes.

If you’re willing to spend the feats or class level to wear armor, it’s potentially decent for some wizards, since other than bonus feats, their special abilities don’t really give you all that much at higher levels. Scroll Savant after level 10, for example. Signifiers get a bit more HP and a better BAB, but Spell Master probably loses more than it gains.

As far as it stacking up with Magus, I don’t see it as being worth the trade off. Armored Battlemage is a better version of the Signifier for a GISH class IMHO.

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I think I will try for a Sorcerer Infernal bloodline class for role-playing.
Magus does not mesh well for Hellknight Signifier. Maybe the normal Hellknight if you work out your feats.

I wouldn’t recommend that. The loss of Magus spells, Magus special powers, etc. isn’t worth it.

Hell Knight abilities only really seem helpful to a Strength Fighter build, using some Domain granted powers and the incredible strength ability. It also has a really good Dazzling Display ability.

Ultimately, the lack of either synergy with other classes or amazing compensatory abilities of it’s own makes both classes lackluster.

Armiger has some utility with the better BAB as a blaster, if you chuck a level to Fighter, or maybe a Brown Fur Transmuter build for melee instead of buffing.

There may be a decent theorycraft build for Hell Knight if the levels from Hell Knight stack with levels of Cleric or War Priest if you choose the same domains for both classes, since Hell Knight has a better BaB.

Yeah, I am going to ditch this build idea.
Magus Hellknight basic and Signifier doesn’t work out.
I will just go for a Demon Eldritch Scion build.

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Wizard or Sorcerer for a Hellknight Signifier?

If you want to take the Devil path then it’s mechanically better to go with an Charisma caster due to the various spell-like abilities of said path. Either Sorcerer for bloodline powers or Stigmatized Witch for oracle curses works splendidly if you want to stick with arcane classes.

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I played through the game with an inquisitor (sacred hunter) of Asmodeus, becoming Signifer and devil in the end.

I picked the background feat that adds wisdom bonus to persuasion instead of charisma.

The build was fun rp-wise, not super effective until the higher aeon levels, then things got easier. I play on normal mode and like to explore character ideas on a story level, I’m not sure this character would be very good on the difficulty levels above normal.

Hellknight signifier honestly isnt a great class. The class features are just bad. In terms of what it would be useful for, it allows medium BAB progression and full spell caster progression for a pure arcane caster. To my mind, that is the only major draw.

A build where it might be useful would be wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Signifier 4 (take a background the grants light armour proficiency to get at least some mileage out of your arcane armour training). The 4 levels of signifier allow you to hit BAB 16 for a 4th attack a round whilst having 19 caster levels, compared to, for example, a wizard 8/fighter 2/eldritch knight 10 which has a caster level of 17 to achieve the same BAB (albeit with 2 bonus feats, no need to spend a feat on martial weapon proficiency or arcane armour training and qualifying for greater weapon specialisation and penetrating strike). Its also the only way to get 16 BAB outside of particular mythic path features and cast 9th level spells as a sorcerer.

As to which arcane caster to choose, I think wizard is probably the best. If combining with EK, a witch’s hexes dont work with spell critical as far as I am aware, so you wont get much mileage out of this class feature, and your bloodline progression as a sorcerer will be massively gimped. A wizard gets very limited class features, the bonus feats will be handy for a feat starved build, and an elemental specialist can allow you to convert all spell damage to a single element (fire is best pick for the fire specific gear), so you can take 1 ascendant element and use all offensive spells without any issue.

I would also build around the use of branch of the last ash bardiche, allowing you to focus fully on intelligence. It will probably take to chapter 3 to have BAB progression allowing you to be effective in melee anyway, and you can play as a pure mage until then.

Well, in all honestly, the only decent spells the devil gets are hellfire ray (no save) and overwhelming presence (mythic rank 10 and requiring a lot of specific gear and feats to make work effectively, which given its mythic rank 10 is absolutely not viable to build around).

Signifier doesnt advance bloodline progression, and the most powerful bloodline features are after level 10. Without your full bloodline progression, your spell selection will also be very limited at higher spell levels. And the stigmatised witches curse feature has the same issue, its progression is tied to class level.

Yeah, Hellknight Signifier isn’t working out well for me. I have tried numerous variations (restartitis is real) but I just keep getting roadblocks and other features of the class that do not mix well.
So I have decided to write off this build idea and try something else. So far a Demon Abyssal Sorcerer/Magus has piqued my interest. And no prestige class to build around.

Same is also true for any other class. The prestige class won’t progress Cleric domain powers, Oracle mysteries, Wizard spell school powers, Shaman spirits or anything else. Just spell progression.

Oracle curses for Stigmatized Witch are granted at 5th, 10th and 15th level. So two-third are already secured for a 10/10 class build anyway.

The most fitting Oracle curse for a Devil-to-be-Witch is Hellbound. Two of its progression features are things Devil gets from her path. So it kind of represents a natural ‘progression’ of said curse. In that sense, there is no loss except of a somewhat gimped hex progression.

Tho honestly nothing is stopping you to take for instance 15 Witch levels and only 5 Signifer ones. Depending what you’re going for with the character, it may be even better to have as little level dips as possible and to focus on the main class.

The difference a wizard’s class features beyond low levels are extremely minor compared to bloodline features. A wizard gives up far less by taking eldritch knight or hellfire signifier than a sorcerer or witch does.

And yes there is something stopping you from taking 15 witch and 5 signifier. Its completely pointless. You BAB is going to be the same as a level 20 witch, and the class features are really bad. You would be better off getting more hex picks, including grand hexes. As for a 10/10 build, you are definitely missing out on your best bloodline powers as a sorcerer, and probably missing the best curse features as a stigmatised witch, as well as a lot of hexes.

Hellbound at 10th and 15th levels gives you Fire Immunity and Lawful Evil weapon traits respectively. Both things are granted anyway by the Devil path. Hellbound has no granted ‘curse spell’ and also as an archetype lacks patron spells. Hence it’s a non-issue to branch out as Hellknight Signifer.

BAB in itself is only interesting if you want to deal weapon damage. So it’s rather irrelevant for someone who doesn’t pick arms and focuses on casting spells and hexes instead. Eldritch Knight isn’t something I would recommend for any Witch, much less if you throw Hellknight Signifer into the mix.

The lack of grand hexes hurts, but isn’t unmanageable.

Yes, I suppose if you pick a curse with redundant features its less important if you dont actually obtain all the curse features. But that probably was never a good build in the first place. Rather than justify your choice by intentionally picking a suboptimal curse, why not just pick a good curse?

And if BAB isnt important to your build, there is absolutely no reason to pick signifier. Medium BAB progression with full arcane spell progression is the only worthwhile feature this class has. All the other class features are trash.

Simply: roleplaying. A build which enables me to roleplay a character to the fullest extend is far more important in my book than anything else.

Asmodeus is known as the Master of Witches in Pathfinder. And taking levels in Hellknight Signifer opens up the possibility to officially join the Hellknight faction in act 3. Which, for a Witch with Asmodeus as deity is just a matter of course to take.

The why are you arguing about mechanics? If your choice is driven by RP, not mechanics, there is no reason to defend it as a mechanically sound choice when it clearly isnt.

Anyone else still salty about the lack of signifier masks?

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? My initial post was stating that a Charisma caster is better for a path which excels at spell-like abilities. Since those use Charisma rather than Intelligence ingame. Looks like a mechanic argument to me.

The fact that my second argument was about a curse that even by not reaching all curse features still properly blooms to its full extend via Devil path is also mechanically in nature.

Is it a min-maxer’s wet dream build? Probably not. Is it a liability to play as from a mechanics point or roleplaying point of view? Absolutely not.

That, and the fact that the ingame Hellknight Signifer armor is Medium. While the prestige class wrongfully receives Heavy Armor Proficiency… making it impossible to actually wear the designated armor given if said character does not already have Medium Armor Proficiency by class.