Game built for OP Players by OP Developers

Just finished 2nd run through and biggest issue is not the bugginess (it is still buggy as fuck) it is the fact that the game was obv built for the 1% of players that want to go the OP route, not for the average gamer.

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Were you having trouble on Story mode?
I don’t understand posts like this in a game with a multitude of difficulty options, do people just want the hardest difficulty in games to be a cake walk? Is it all about participation trophies and ego’s being hurt if they cant blindly beat a game without doing any research or planning? Do people expect to just walk onto a soccer field and being able to beat pro’s without even watching a single game? Does the world want a difficulty that auto changes so the player will never lose and therefore never be challenged?

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It’s not a game where the object is to find the one OP thing. If you try to do that you’ll be behind the people who just develop their classes and read their spells and abilities and inspect the monsters, explore, etc…

The powergamers and clickbait sites are optimizing the wrong game.

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I admit it openly: I’m an “exploit gamer”, I like to play the game according to my rules. Use my first 1-2 playthroughs to learn everything and then have a “ultra fun mode” run (or many) where I min/max to the extreme and utilize every little thing I can do to have a faster / more glorious / more OP run. This often involves “doing things out of order” (in BG3 this is BIG, btw…), intentionally turning up number of enemies to get more XP, etc…

However, on normal mode this game doesn’t appear to be too hard at all, I’d put it in the same category as D:OS2 on tactician (at most), which isn’t that hard.

There may be a few “difficulty spikes”, but this is, in reality, about teaching new concepts (think about that certain fight at the end of act 2 against that character with tower shield + excessively high AC).

I’m currently near the end of act 3 but nothing I have seen so far indicates to me that this game really NEEDS overoptimization or min/maxing on normal difficulty.

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Some of the achievements might be designed for OP players but the game is definitely designed for anyone. With the amount of customizable options there’s no real reason that the game should be considered too easy or too hard.
You can find a really good balance for yourself by fiddling around with the settings. The damage to party slider is the best thing in the world to me. I like difficult to kill creatures but I don’t want to be steamrolled so I turn the creature difficulty up and the damage to me way down. Neither side steamrolls the other and fights remain challenging but I have way more of a chance to win.

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I think part of this may be because difficulty modifiers are so inconsistent between games. If I was picking up a new game and it asks me on startup which difficulty I wanted to pick, and I have no idea what that entails and how it’s going to play out, how am I supposed to pick? This is of course less of a deal in a game where you can change difficulty on the fly. Nevertheless it feels strange e. g. running against brick walls on Normal when in the majority of other games one flies through the Hard difficulties.

I remember picking up Elex and immediately picking the hardest difficulty because that has been the right one for me in the half dozen games preceding it. I was basically one-shotted by everything and didn’t even make a scratch on any enemy. Then I was feeling clever and got two of these enemies that tend to one-shot me into a fight, intending to mop them up when they were weakened. I was standing there for 15 minutes until the life counter of one of them was showing any movement at all. I restarted on Normal immediately.

I think that Normal in this game isn’t like Normal in most other games. I like it that way. But it can take a bit getting used to.

Add to this that this game is complicated as hell. We got, like, a hundred classes now? You have to basically read every word in every description carefully, and even then some concepts aren’t immediately obvious. If I read something requiring being unarmed, I would be like “hey, my pets are unarmed!” until I’d notice that natural attacks and unarmed attacks are different concepts. Then add that some things work differently than they are described. It really is complicated af.

Imagine going into this without having played any DnD or Pathfinder game before. Also not being prepared to spend a couple dozen hours reading and testing. And then getting your ass kicked repeatedly because of some error you made that isn’t really obvious to you.

I think that this game is basically aimed at players who

  • either have played DnD or Pathfinder before and just enjoy the many options instead of being overwhelmed by them
  • or have fun sifting through an ultra complex rule system and don’t mind spending dozens of hours and a few failed runs on understanding it.

With a little bit of reading most people can be perfectly effective on normal. Try, reload, try. Just because you can’t mash buttons for success doesn’t mean the game is only for experts.

With a bit more reading and some practice you can take on higher difficulties and get cool achievements and figure out neat combos and the strengths of each class and NPC. Or, you can play on story mode if you want to enjoy the characters and their development with minimal game mechanic expertise.

The game gives a lot of flexibility to suit what you find fun.

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Yes, there are loads of classes and subclasses but you don’t have to learn all of them and their progression/abilities to succeed, at least on difficulties up to and including Core; you just have to learn the one you pick and those of the companions in your main party. Learning 100+ classes all in one go would certainly be a big ask, but learning 6 is pretty manageable.

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You still need to know what the classes actually do and how to use them, and unless you end up with a fitting party by accident, you probably have to switch around some. So most likely you will look at more than 6 classes. And probably run into things not working out the way you expected on each of them a couple of times.

I am just sceptical that every person who picks up the game understands what he is getting into. I bet a lot don’t.

I think those people that complain are partially right, because difficulty labels are incorrect here. Normal is not normal at all in this game and you shouldn’t choose it unless you already know the system well and preferrably played the game at least once on easier difficulty. Playing on casual though in other games is too easy and thus not everyone wants to play difficulty for scrubs, or so they assime. But it’s no shame to do that in this game.
I’d say that compared to other games casual here is easy, easy is normal, normal is core and the rest is for sadomasochistic elitists who love min/maxing.

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Now I am sad. I came to this thread expecting to see info for some new game what officially promise that it will be (hopefully RPG) Game build for OP players by OP developers. Well, have to keep on looking ;(

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That’s pretty much it. The OP is right. “normal” reduces critical hits, reduces enemy damage and all but eliminates environmental hazards. It’s playing with cheats enabled.

If you thought that DOS2 tactician was easy, congrats you are part of the elite. You have a game that plays to you. Me, I’m someone who plays BG2 (still) on core without SCS installed.

The game needs to rename “core” “hardcore” and make a true “core” setting – a true to table top rules setting.

Also, I’ve never encountered a game that really required meta knowledge to succeed. If you sold those hunter’s gloves before you met Aru you have really hampered her performance. (And you have to keep them for a loong before she’s able to use them)

Same goes for Sossiel and the marching terror glaive – you have to carry that heavy item for a loong time and resist temptation to sell it after his personal quest (where it’s nearly useless) if you want to use Sossiel on the front lines.

And to anticipate a reply – it’s not a matter of learning or understanding the rules. I’ve beaten the game twice on core. It’s about parts of the game being too difficult to be fun. It about metaknowledge required to succeed.

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Nah, the irony is that if you’re a normal player (I usually play normal or maybe one tick above on other games) you do fine because the game rewards the kind of things normal players do: developing your skills, staying in your class, exploring, reading dialogues, making well-rounded characters, playing bards etc. it has a lot of traps for minmaxxers and that’s where the main complaints come from since they can’t just read some guide and faceroll everything without thinking like they’re used to.

I mean don’t sell unique equipment. Why would you do that? And Marching Terror heavy? What? You use it on whoever can and then give it to Sos for awhile but not the whole game lol. He gets a better one in Ch2.

Well, I sure developed my characters with the trickster’s unique feats in mind, towards the end of the game they became OP, as indicated by the mythic nature of the setting itself, but I’d say normal difficulty was as expected (although I had turned on extra behaviour and larger quantities of enemies, the former since I didn’t want the AI to hold back, as it’s a spike in difficulty and creativity I actually enjoy); a tad sluggish in the beginning (althouth levels trickled in a tad faster since 2nd beta, opening up new spells and abilities in time for harder battles), some fights standing out throughout the game, exceptionally hard mini/side bosses and a couple of reloads during fights against the demigod demons themselves (Baphometh, Deskari and the final fight). The biggest problem for me are, as you also indicated, the bugs. This because you never know whether what’s happening is actually intended, it being enemy behaviour or some weird synergies on your own part bordering with exploits.

I also disagree with apologetic excuses some players have for enemies bloated stats numbers and enemy count: “You don’t play tabletop, but crpg!” (so we’ll throw a ton more mobs at ya at every corner), “You’ve got a party of six companions!” (but you gotta have meta knowledge how to build them and some are trash anyway on higher difficulties). And the most obnoxious one: “You have save/reload!”. Excuse me, if I have to resort to save/reload every time the game pulls a random dice bs that wipes the party, or puts me in a situation which I can’t concievably prepare to without meta knowledge, if it’s really a legitimate tool everyone is supposed to abuse to win this game it’s just very poor design and lazy balance.
At best devs should stop assuming everyone is a min/maxing guru and overhaul game’s balance, put way more tutorials and make more premade builds that actually work. At the very least they should correct the misleading difficulty settings labels.

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Sure, but you’re making my case. Who would I give the assortment of glaives you get in that chapter to? Either the MC or a merc. Otherwise the first time player sells them.

Seela maybe but she’s tells you she wants radiance. Lann? bad idea. Woljif? another bad idea. Give it Nenio? um, wut? Daeran and Ember don’t belong on the front lines so that leaves Camilla is as the least worst choice but you really need to go against finesse build.

Now, with meta, you know to store the early glaives away and to trade them out. Same with gloves. Why would I sell? Perhaps I want that living ram armor for Seela, that iceplant ring for camilla or ember, those bracers for Nenio . . .

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No, you don’t sell unique weapons. Seelah has Martial Proficiency lol. Radiance isn’t even magic yet. It’s not Glaive(s) it’s one weapon that sends everyone running. If you’re unlucky it owned you in the first boss fight of the game.

Don’t blame your own brain farts on the game.

I don’t think it’s a good decision. You’re better off using the long swords with Seela in that chapter. You have three different dialogues telling you to hold onto radiance and you want to build your tank to take advantage of a future weapon. Radiance is cold iron and it allows you to use a shield – which is how I build Seela – smiting tank that never fails a will check.

Again, it’s great for a martial MC but holding on without metaknowledge?

And again, now you know Aru is a ranger it makes sense to hold onto those gloves but if you are just playing the first time, Aru is a ghostly vision with unknown class you might want to sell and buy some equipment for the big battle that the game is repeatedly telling will happen in Drezen.

I’m not so much ‘blaming game’ as empathizing with the OP and hopefully the community manager is reporting some of this to the team.

Right now I’m trying a run where I keep Sossiel in the party. It’s hard because with the boundless healing bug he’s really an inferior healer and, compared to Regil and Seela, an inferior front liner. (Who really shines in the late game if you build for maces and not glaives)

But he’s one of the least popular companions because he only shines with meta knowledge applied. Even his introductory quest doesn’t do him justice.

“Hmm. Why is this quest trying to convince me that Daeran is better at handling the undead than Sossiel”?

It’s a metaknowledge game. Don’t get me wrong, it’s fun, it’s strange and quirky and like it. But not all the frustrations players are feeling can be attributed to rule ignorance or brain failure.

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