And your choice was ... Warhammer 40k?

Hello everyone,

well … we got Warhammer 40k in the end. Not that this series already has an abundance of mostly failed entries and seems like if someone, anyone wants to make a Warhammer 40k game, he can freely do so, tarnishing the label in the process, but this isnt nearly what I expected.

Obsidian went with Avorion after PoE2 failed, though not sure if theyre still working on that, making use of their established lore but going 3D as well as in a new Skyrim-y direction gameplay-wise.

However, Owlcat isnt Obsidian and despite them saying they can manage both Warhammer 40k and WotR DLCs, which will likely be even smaller ones in the future as the studio is stretched over 2 projects, they have shown that their games were a bugged mess at release and more than 1 year later still.

For me this isnt what I hoped for. After the grandeur of massive new features that Owlcat could not handle in WotR, I hoped for a slightly less asset hungry Pathfinder entry, perhaps a similar game using a different ruleset like D&D or other ones, but otherwise retaining what assets they have build over the years until now to spare them the headache of recreating it completely anew.

With all the failed Warhammer 40k entries in mind and knowing in what state this game will almost certainly be in, given no factor remotely points to any positive direction, I wish those that decide to be ‘Founders’ good luck.

Sincerely.

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Yup, color me both surprised and disappointed. And the fact that we don’t have any discussion yet about this announcement here says a lot to me.

I totally get not wanting to keep using Paizo’s APs and instead wanting to write their own story and game. In fact, that is exactly what I was hoping for with a third Pathfinder game: a game using the Pathfinder ruleset, but with an original story and characters NOT taken from a Paizo AP. But then again, perhaps that’s the split between Owlcat and Paizo that I am sensing right now. Maybe that’s what Owlcat wanted to do, but Paizo said ‘no’ and insisted Owlcat continue to use Paizo’s APs as the source material for their games. So Owlcat decided to walk away.

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For whatever reason they did this, Owlcat hopped away from a brand, Pathfinder, they exclusively delivered 2 games for its longing customerbase towards a brand, Warhammer 40k, that sees at least 1 new game being announced every few months, meaning a brand that is oversaturated already.

If their new game is as messed up as their 2 Pathfinder ones were, which is the by far likeliest outcome, it will be teared apart. Warhammer 40k enthusiasts have a vast number of games to play, more than any other brand in the world, and theyre not forced to accept a bugridden mess.

If Owlcat somehow manages to deliver a working game from day 1, it will only be a grain of sand in the vast desert of entries that Warhammer 40k sees and the next shiny will be just around the corner.

Meanwhile, Pathfinder is now completely blank again and even if you combine it with the D&D crowd, youre still looking at a Baldurs Gate 3 that is years away from release, with the last ‘Community Update’ rapidly drawing closer to 1 year ago, and no other game servicing this now empty gap.

I mean, they can do what they want to do, but I wouldnt be suprised if their Warhammer 40k entry is yet another bugridden mess, but one that is review bombed by a crowd that is accustomed to getting good games of their brand at least once if not several times per year.

They just choose very dangerous waters, perhaps the most dangerous of all waters and so all while not having as much as raft to speak of. I cant see this ending good for them.

IMO, a cobbler should stick to his last. If they had chosen an Adventure Path, like Mummy’s Mask, that is not as asset hungry as WotR was, reusing the assets they have build until now, I would have actually found it within reason that they could deliver a day 1 working game on their 3rd try.

Now they have to create ALL assets anew. No Magic Missile, no Eldritch Knight, no Dwarven Waraxe, no < insert any Kingmaker / WotR asset > in Warhammer 40k, Im afraid.

Paizo would be foolish to cut off the only game supplier for their brand just because of minor disagreements. Owlcat brought, even in their game-wise messed up states, Pathfinder to new heights. I personally didnt even knew this existed until Ive read about Kingmaker.

No, at a guess that is far more likely, this has reasons tied to international companies moving away from certain countries because of a certain conflict. Owlcat might have been cut off ‘involuntarily’.

I mean, WotR was a success. So much in fact that they were able to expand their studio during these harsh times. Why deliberately move away from that success story and a brand where you dont have any competition to speak of towards a brand where youre just a grain of sand in a vast desert ? Makes absolutely no sense.

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I am also dissapointed and waited / wanted it to be Iron Gods. But there ARE reasons why game studios “walk away” from they best selling brands and want to try out and do something new instead.
If we remember how deeply dedicated they have been ( I mean literally weekly game sessions in P&P Pathfinder for years using multiple times same AP’s and getting ideas from that… …wow) it is totally possible that they either:

  • Start to get bit “bored” for same setting and want to try something bit new but still RPG hoping that fan base and players (us) will follow
  • Start to feel and even fear that everyone see them as a “one star wonder” who keep milking same cow. A company who can create only ONE narrow kind of products and will be forgotten or only remembered for those who ever play Pathfinder CRPG games

So I really hope that they will return and do that Iron Gods and so on, but for every second or third game do something different. May it be WH 40, Warhammer Fantasy Battle (which I would have preferred more), R.E.Howard’s Conan would be dream come true (would LOVE to be able to play in Hyborian age inspect old Stygian scrolls and learn forbitten magic while fighting against hordes of Pict’s), have a real RPG in Battletech universe and so on. There are plenty of interesting worlds in RPG. Not just Dungeons and Dragons (2:nd edition) with Forgotten Realms or Dragon Lance which are (I believe) most used and most well known for players.

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To be honest you have valid points but, it was an extremely good business move. GW is known for not being able a video game themselves even to save their own lives and the warhammer community has wanted this exact product (rpg) for sooooooo long. it also has the potential to bring in massive potential customers and introduce new people to warhammer and pathfinder like. They will certainly make alot of money off this and maybe they did that because they realized they needed break from paizo APs because they didnt have enough money/resources to bring them to life like they wanted to.You may get what you wanted, just way down the line which isn’t exactly ideal but its way better than what we usually get; which is a wreck of a game. regardless they have a foot well established in warhammer and pathfinder which both have deep lore. millions of stories there. they could bounce back and forth forever making games from both potentially(provided the quality of the games is always good). I personally thought it was going to be another ap originally but paizo is good at doing what we dont expect.

“Thanks to our studio’s growth in recent years, we are now capable of working on multiple projects at the same time, and the development of the new game won’t affect our plans for Pathfinder. We are aware that you want more content for Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, and we’ve scheduled a brand-new set of DLCs under a Season 2 code name. We will share more details about it after the release of the third DLC.”

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@Schutzengel, just FYI, Owlcat is now a Cyprus-based company. :wink:

On topic, I have zero interest in a WH40K game and will be passing on this game. But yes, I can certainly appreciate the Owlcat devs wanting to do something different after having spent the past six years working exclusively on Pathfinder. No problem with that if it will be the case that they will be returning to Pathfinder eventually.

But even in this case I do have a huge fear and concern. In making this WH40K game they have chosen to go exclusively TB combat. I can see that being a prelude and a pretext to going exclusively TB for all future Owlcat games including future Pathfinder games. Now that would be a huge betrayal of fans like me who were there for Owlcat from their very beginning, and it would completely alienate me from Owlcat.

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BG3 literally put out an update on July7. And they’ve been doing regular updates. Not sure what you’re talking about there. And I’m not even that enthused about bg3… I don’t think the Larian elemental and games mechanics work well in D&D rules.

Same here. Played and finished both Divinities OS, loved the OG Baldur’s Gates, but WotR completely overtook any interest I could have in BG3.
I’d much prefer a 3rd PF game, possibly using 2e.

ye i imagine the change is a involuntary one or they want to evolve past pathfinder and show they can adapt and also write their own stories

i can’t imagine them forcing turn based on everyone considering the biggest issue people had with wrath besides the bugs was the quest that forced turned based on you

I actually think it is pretty awesome that they picked WH40k

The entire setting have been in dire need of a proper cRPG for ages and now its been done by Owlcat, that we know will give us a good story and gameplay… I am actually very hyped (and I normally don´t get hyped)

You don´t need to be a WH40k fan to enjoy this, just as you don´t have to play the tabletop, the same goes for pathfinder… (I love it all, even painting WH40k) but all in all, this is awesome for most of us, we should be happy, that cRPG´s have a new golden age and that Owlcat is brave enough to tackle this setting.

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exactly, lets just hope the release is bug free